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Phase 1 - What should the management plan focus on?
Update December 30, 2009:
This discussion topic received a lot of interest and many participants left detailed comments. Several participants supported maintaining water quality as an important priority, including monitoring impacts from developments outside park boundaries. Detailed objectives, targets and actions for water quality issues are outlined in the draft management plan under the Key Strategy: Water for Life. Many comments also referred to the importance of rigorous and comprehensive ecological monitoring, as well as the value in working with other scientists and experts to conduct research in the park. The objectives, targets and actions for scientific work are detailed in read more
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Comment 1 30 Nov 2009, 12:56 PM
Water quality is important to me.
Comment 1.1 10 Dec 2009, 3:38 PM
Monitoring is one of the management goals - it relates to water quality but other things as well. Monitoring science doesn’t seem to be getting much attention… and as a scientist I find this lack of detail/interest … scary.
Managers need to use science to guide management decisions. Who is going to do this science? Are Parks Canada personnel being trained and supervised by professional researchers with PhDs? Is this science going to be monitoring that uses testable hypotheses that will generate data that addresses specific management needs? OR… is this going to be simplistic … say… let’s ask a few more…
Doug - Parks Canada Comment 1.1.1 Conservation Biologist 18 Dec 2009, 10:45 AM
Thank you for your comments on the Nahanni planning program - you are obviously very interested in, and knowledgeable about the park. The information provided at this stage of the process outlines the broad topic areas, and not the specifics of the management plan; a draft plan will be made available in the coming weeks, and may address your concerns.
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Allow me to assure you that although there may be a "lack of detail" at this stage, there certainly is no lack of interest in monitoring. Of the seven Key Issues identified during the process leading to preparation of the park more…
Comment 1.1.1.1 18 Dec 2009, 12:19 PM
Bill Nye used to say... consider the following. With that in mind I’ll throw out the following ideas as food for thought… This is offered as constructive feedback - not as a negative/critical assault against Doug or other people or agencies.
1) Has anyone wondered who exactly sits around a table to set the science/monitoring priorities for this national park/reserve? Does/should the public know the names and scientific credentials of those people? The names of the planning panel for this exercise are known, but not the names of a nahanni science oversight group (if one exists)
2) What is the science/monitoring budget more…
Krista - Parks Canada Comment 1.1.1.1.1 Consultation Advisor 23 Dec 2009, 2:35 PM
Moose, some of your questions and suggestions are quite detailed and may be best explored in detail through one-on-one dialogue. If you would like, please drop us a line via e-mail (nahanni.plan.@pc.gc.ca) with your contact info and Doug will be in touch in early January.
Comment 1.2 29 Jan 2010, 10:51 AM
Of course, water quality is of top importance. But one should realize that - as far as I have read - there are only relatively few areas along the South Nahanni corridor where even clean water is not fit to drink, probably due to its high silt contents.
Comment 2 1 Dec 2009, 12:36 PM
maintaining natural conditions devoid of human impacts as much as possible
Comment 2.1 2 Dec 2009, 9:21 AM
The issue of the Priarie Creek mine site has not been addressed in this forum. Road development into the site could impact the expanded area and water use at the mine must be carefully monitored to insure no downstream impact occurs on the Nahanni itself.
Chuck - Parks Canada Comment 2.1.1 NNPR Superintendent 8 Dec 2009, 3:12 PM
Parks Canada and Dehcho First Nations are working together with the Canadian Zinc Corporation and through the environmental impact assessment being conducted by the Mackenzie Valley Environmental Impact Review Board to ensure no downstream impact occurs on the Nahanni.
The park does conduct water quality monitoring and is looking at enhancing the program as a result of park expansion.
Comment 3 1 Dec 2009, 8:13 PM
I agree that the listed key issues and challenges are relevant, timely, and important. I recommend that each of them be evaluated through the filter of what approach would be best for the long-term health and sustainability of the park and all of its natural resources and values. I also recommend that the precautionary approach be used. As such, if there is or may be a resource conflict or uncertainty, it should be resolved by giving the benefit of any doubt to resource protection. Often when people intervene to "manage" resources, even with the best of intentions, we learn later more…
Comment 4 2 Dec 2009, 7:05 AM
When I see "increased visitation", I get very concerned. Maintaining water quality, ensuring that the ecological integrity is unimpaired should be taking precedence in management decisions. Increased visitation has caused decline of caribou in the Rockies, and if some of the roads into Maligne Lake and other areas supporting caribou populations had not been built....caribou populations would be in less peril...Nahanni should not expand infrastructure or in any way bring more visitors in places that may affect caribou or other sensitive wildlife species.
Comment 4.1 2 Dec 2009, 8:47 AM
I agree that seeing "increased visitation" makes me very concerned. There are enough Parks in Canada that are overcrowded and the wilderness experience is dampened by large numbers of people on a hike and by people who do not have enough knowledge about no-trace camping.
I think Parks Canada needs to thoroughly explain why it feels the need to increase visitation. People are drawn to the park because of its remoteness, its wildness and because of the opportunities to see wildlife. If we want to be crowded by flocks of people we would go to Banff or Cape Breton. The Nahanni should be preserved first and foremost for its own intrinsic rights, with people coming in a distant second.
Chuck - Parks Canada Comment 4.2 NNPR Superintendent 8 Dec 2009, 3:22 PM
Parks Canada visitation has declined over the last several years, as have visitors to Nahanni. Visitation to Nahanni peaked in the mid-1990s around 1,200. Visitation to the original park over the last several years has been in the 800-1000 people per year range. Our visitation has not come close to established limits to ensure a wilderness experience; this is reinforced by findings from our visitor surveys and the State of the Park Report 2009. June and September, two great months to visit the park,hardly see any visitors at all.
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Diversifying the visitor product, looking at shoulder seasons and the expansion lands, means there is potential to increase visitor numbers. We are not looking at changing our carrying capacity for river use.
Comment 4.2.1 8 Dec 2009, 8:31 PM
Perhaps visitation has declined because of the astronomical prices. Parks has become a playground for the elite who can afford $14/person/day plus $25-35 to camp in a campground. I think it is ridiculous that there are flush toilets and hot water inside parks - if you don't like getting dirty, don't go out in the woods.
Parks Canada is responsible for teaching people the importance of wilderness and conservation, but how can you properly do so when you take the experience of National and Provicial Parks away from te majority of Canadians?
Chuck - Parks Canada Comment 4.3 NNPR Superintendent 8 Dec 2009, 4:22 PM
Visitor infrastructure is not being considered in areas of important caribou habitat. Decreasing populations of Northern Mountain Caribou is an issue highlighted in the 2009 State of the Park report:
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"The decline in numbers is the result of several factors. The expansion of Nahanni may address this issue in part, as more caribou habitat is now protected within the park. Activities outside park boundaries have an impact on declining caribou populations. Positive change can be affected through collaoration with others including the Governments of NWT and Yukon, Aboriginal partners, sport hunting outfitters and industry, through the development of regional management regimes and measure to ensure accountability. Parks Canada and its partners, including Dehcho First Nations, will continue to monitor caribou populations within the park boundaries."
Comment 4.4 14 Feb 2010, 6:14 AM
This comment is extremely important. Sensitive areas where caribou populations exist should be left as is and visitors and infastructure should not be allowed in these critical areas at all.
Comment 5 2 Dec 2009, 7:49 PM
Increasing Visitation, I can't support.
The Managment plan could focus on controling visitation.
Maintain the infrastructure is at the top of my list. Keep and maintain what is already there but move slowly on adding more or don't add any.
Comment 5.1 29 Jan 2010, 11:21 AM
I think that one of the goals of NNPR must be to provide a fairly good, limited if relatively primitive infrastructure to accommodate visitors - after all it is a park for nature-loving Canadians and other citizens. Due to the river's challenges to canoeists and backcountry travellers, this in itself will limit the number of would-be visitors, and many of the younger generation will also not easily be able to afford the fly-in cost.
For new would-be visitors, I am sure PC will provide instructive broschures before anyone will go on the daring canoe trip down the river, which will more…
Comment 6 4 Dec 2009, 7:16 PM
I visited the Nahanni in July and August and saw fewer people there than on other northern rivers. --in 3 weeks we saw less than 10 visitors. I think increased visitation is appropriate but must be within limits that ensure a quality experience --I do not want to spend 10 days paddling and hiking into an area to find that other people flew in --so increase ways for people to explore the area UNDER human power --this will limit the numbers
Comment 7 4 Dec 2009, 7:40 PM
Better education of no-trace camping and respect for other visitors is needed. Below are 2 examples:
1. We pulled up to a popular campsite and the stench of feces was overpowering. Not 10 feet from where we landed was a large pile of toilet paper and feces underneath a makeshift driftwood seat on the sandy shore.
2. While camping at The Gate, we chose to set up camp away from a larger, more established campsite in case of a larger group (there were only 2 of us). Indeed, a group of 6 in a raft pulled up, set up their kitchen beside our tent, strung their laundry over the entire beach and around our canoe and gear.
Also needed is a proper food cache at Britnell Creek similar to the one at Rabbitkettle or Kraus for those going to the Cirque of Unclimbables. It would also be advantageous to have a food cache at the Cirque - or ensuring people have bear resistant food containers with them.
Comment 8 6 Dec 2009, 5:50 PM
The list of issues looks complete, but I would need to know more to have comments. What is the issue with water quality? With northern mountain caribou?
I'm fine with traditional names.
The general level of infrastructure seemed OK this summer. I would ask about toilets on the river given that everyone travels the same route - is that becoming an issue? Our experience was fine.
Chuck - Parks Canada Comment 8.1 NNPR Superintendent 8 Dec 2009, 4:39 PM
There is an issue with human waste in areas of concentrated use, such as Nailicho / Virigina Falls.
Likely this plan will introduce the need to assess and employ better technologies and practices for human waste management.
Comment 9 14 Dec 2009, 3:50 PM
Water quality is extremely important: as the driver behind expanding NNPR to include (almost) the whole watershed, and because of probable impacts from industrial developments nearby. Parks Canada and others' strong participation in environmental regulatory processes around proposed developments in the watershed is critical, as is planning for these impacts in the management plan (ie drawing on experts to develop comprehensive monitoring/mitigation plans).
Monitoring programs should definitely include water - quality and quantity. Also, addressing declining mountain caribou populations through inter-jurisdictional monitoring (and management) programs is critical: without knowing what's happening with wildlife populations, it will be difficult to effectively manage them in the expanded park.
Monitoring programs shouldn't stop at water and caribou; Parks scientists and other experts should be given the opportunity to develop research priorities based on factors such as the probable impacts of human use, climate change, and industrial development.
Traditional place names and culturally-related outreach programming are also important. Maintaining the focus on both ecological and cultural values should continue to be a priority of the Consensus Team.
Comment 9.1 15 Dec 2009, 6:55 AM
There are several issues at play with respect to water quality in Nahanni. The messy fact of the matter is that a "drainage accident" at a nearby mining operation could result in mining effluent entering the groundwater and/or surface water system. When I was last in the area I saw that tailings ponds at the Tungsten operation were full - this fact was also reporrted in the press. There is also a stream running less than 50 m from that tailings pond and this is a seismically active area (earthquakes). Putting two and two together I reach the conclusion that maybe parks and the NWT government or other branches of government should sit down and figure out what must be done to ensure that a) no "drainage accident" occurs, b) that a secondary berm is erected to ensure that any "drainage accident" is stopped before it does much damage, and/or c) that an emergency plan is developed to quickly stop and mitigate any "drainage accident" befroe it reaches the park.
the there is a mining operation that is upstreahas a tailings pond that is nearly full.... and sits There is the risk associated with
Comment 10 16 Dec 2009, 3:50 PM
I am concerned about what happens outside of the Park reserve boundaries, as this will influence the integrity of the reserve. ie: mining in an area near a river which flows into the park will impact on the water quality.
logging will impact on areas of the park adjacent to this activity thereby changing wildlife's passage or cooridors used.
therefore in order to preserve the pristine quality of the park we need to look outside the box and take into account the influences in the adjacent land surrounding the reserve closely to identify factors that will impact on the whole.
Comment 11 20 Dec 2009, 7:08 PM
I strongly support the use of traditional Dene names. I find it a bit absurd that Nailicho is more widely known by a name (Virginia Falls) given by an American who wanted to honour his daughter.
Comment 11.1 23 Dec 2009, 9:33 AM
Water quality obviously isn't important and always takes a back seat to resource extraction otherwise we would not have everything that makes up our daily lives.The park still has the option of a South Nahanni toxic waste site tour with built in infrastuture they can promote this to increase the visitor experience.They could also create an out reach program to promote and educate people and monitor the site for eternity instead of clean it up. Developement always will happen at major view points/attractions and will never be stopped just like all the parks in Canada. That is why the government wants to at least maintain or increase the visitations to justify the new infrastucture develeopment that is going to happen. It will really not matter what the general public says the South Nahanni will be developed.I have spent 10 seasons guiding hunters in the newly expanded park and there has never been many caribou in the park or expanded area since the late 70's.Who said the caribou numbers are declining.What does the government want to manage in the expanded area?
Comment 11.1.1 29 Jan 2010, 10:43 AM
I surely hope that there will be no more hunting allowed in any parts of the NNPR, other than Dene subsistance hunting.
Comment 12 30 Dec 2009, 3:11 PM
Maintaining and Increasing Visitation
Parks Canada should make this a priority for the New Nahanni.
Recreational aids such a trail maps produced by PC foster the imagination of those looking for outdoor recreation opportunities.
